Just Economy Conference – May 14, 2021
Exploring the role of Black Speculative Arts to reimagine and call forward a just economy. Integrating the processes of truth telling, reconciliation, reparations and reimagining with an AstroBlackness and Afrofuturism Lens. How can we “call” into reality a Just Economy by centering Black Arts Culture?
Speakers:
- Carolyn Johnson, Member of the Black Cultural Zone, Oakland, California
- Randolph Belle, Member of the Black Cultural Zone Collaborative, Oakland, California
- Hager Seven Asefaha, Member of Black Cultural Zone, Lending Museum
- Deana Brownfield, Arts and Culture Coordinator at the Black Cultural Zone
- Mizan Alkebulan-Abakah, CO creator of Spirit Works Organization, Oakland, California
Transcript
NCRC video transcripts are produced by a third-party transcription service and may contain errors. They are lightly edited for style and clarity.
Johnson, 00:02
Great thank you so much. We are delighted to be here today with several members of the black cultural zone Community Development Corporation to talk about truth reconciliation and reparation and how it’s connected to the black speculative Arts Movement around building adjust economy for black people. So first, I’d like to ask all of our guests to introduce themselves. Tell us a little bit about your organization and what your particular art practice is. And then First, I will start with Randolph Belle. And Randolph if you could pass on to the next person.
Belle, 00:36
Thank you. Happy to be here. My name is Randolph Belle. I am a member of the black cultural zone collaborative in Oakland, California. And the collaborative is made up of you know, dozens and dozens of organizations, individuals and businesses, all black, and, you know, kind of working towards a number of different social justice. impacts. I’ve got a few businesses one of them is RBA, creative, which is where we are right now. It is a co working space. For creatives, primarily artists and photographers. It’s I call it a Business Development Center for the Arts where people are able to kind of conduct a business in this space. I’ve got a kind of a boutique real estate development operation we do called creative development partners, a nonprofit called support Oakland artists, which it’s like marketing and technical assistance for artists and individuals. Then my consulting business is kind of a combination of community outreach, stakeholder engagement, arts integration, around real estate development in large scale, kind of municipal projects. Oh, and I’m an artist, I’ve been an artist for all my life. Given particular practice, Randolph. I have I used to paint and draw, but I’ve always done commercial art, graphic design, communications, marketing, just you know, because I’ve always been self employed. So gotta pay the bills. But I do paint, draw illustrations, that sort of thing. Seven.
Asefaha, 03:32
All right, Hey, yo, my name is Seven Asefaha as a member of black cultural zone. My organization is a lending museum. We are if I want you nonprofit with the mission of providing, providing critical, safe space for the African diaspora to cultivate their cultural identity in the face of gentrification. We focus on cultural base space keeping. And I’m myself, I would say I’m a space activists, I primarily focus on taking space and turning it into a safe haven where folks can come and create. I’m conceptual artists, and do street installations, mixed medium of storytelling around social justice issues, focusing around the African diaspora. Is that settle on that? Cool.
Johnson, 03:32
Yeah, so we’ll pass it to Deana.
Brownfield, 03:35
Hello, my name is Deana Brownfield. I’m the arts and culture coordinator at the black cultural zone but I also On am artists, I do textiles, murals and ceramics. So I’m uh, I do a lot of different mediums, but primarily my work centers around Afro indigeneity. And, you know, continuing the conversation of what that looks like in reclaiming that.
Johnson, 04:02
Great, thank you Randolph, Deana and Seven, I’m going to move to the next question. And so the question is around your understanding of the black speculative Arts Movement, and why you believe it is a value to the black community. And I’m going to give you a brief definition of what it is, but it doesn’t mean that it’s your definition. And so we’d love to hear your understanding of this movement, and its relevance to the black community. So black speculative art is a creative aesthetic practice that integrates African dysphoric worldviews with science or technology, and really seeks to interpret, engage, design or alter reality, for the reimagining of the past, the contested, present, and to act as a catalyst for the future. And so just to prep everyone, Deanna, we’re going to go in reverse order. So you’ll be first and then we’ll go to seven, and then we’ll go to Randolph. So while you’re taking that, in Vienna, I’m going to go over again, that description of black speck of art as a creative aesthetic practice that integrates African diasporic worldviews with science or technology, and really seeks to interpret, engage in design or alter reality for the reimagining of our past our contested presence, and to act as a catalyst for the future. So I’ll repeat the question. The question is, what is your understanding of the black speckles of Arts Movement? And why do you believe it is a value to the black community? Deana?
Brownfield, 05:34
For my understanding, the movement itself, is like representing afrofuturism in a, in a wide range of different, you know, capacities, whether it be technology, science, music are in so for me, I think about like the importance for like black people to have their own their own like world. And so afrofuturism allows us to think beyond colonialism and white supremacy, but still, even in those types of works, they still talk about those issues of like colonialism, genocide, and all these different types of things. And, you know, I think it’s very important that we are able to like, reimagine, and reframe like, what, you know, what our world should look like. And, you know, I think that it does a good job with like, reflecting on the past, and acknowledging the past things that have happened to us, impacts how we move forward. And so for me, this movement really allows us to be able to, like, reflect, and also reconcile a level a lot of things that we’ve experienced as like African people, whether you’re on the continent, and also just even as like the dice for we’re able to, like, figure out what we’re supposed to do next, and what does it look like? And it just even allows us to be creative people in the process.
Johnson, 06:59
Wonderful, thank you. Seven, what is your understanding of this movement? And why do you believe it is a value to our community?
Asefaha, 07:08
Well, art is a critical vessel to keep our cultures alive. So in using this platform, for us is just trying to make our culture’s relevant in a current situation where white supremacy kind of dominates in Western culture dominates and imposes on African diasporic identity. So how can we pull from our legacy our ancestors, traditions, and customs, and ways and bring it forward through this platform of all the mediums of art that we have in our disposal, and make it relevant so that the next generation can take from it and be inspired and produce content around our cultural identity so that it’s alive and not pretty much watered down? And maybe co opted by others? So how do we how do we use our art to to, to make and empower the next generation? Wonderful, thank
Johnson, 08:15
Wonderful, thank you Seven and Randolph your take on the movement and what it is and why it’s a value to our community?
Belle, 08:22
Yeah, I think it really represents the realm of possibility for black people. I believe that you know, you know throughout the black experience and really throughout you know, time, you know, we have been the most creative People and you know, kind of in and have left this legacy. And it’s been shown that we we can thrive and innovate, you know, kind of, in spite of horrific adversity. And with black futurism, like kind of in an age, you know, like now in an age where we do have a couple of more freedoms, I’ll say, a couple, you know, I think we have an opportunity to address the kind of the remaining vestiges of oppression, you know, in a sustainable way. And we have an ability to utilize our intellectual property and agency in a way that we can build economic empowerment.
Johnson, 09:32
Wonderful, thank you. And that helps lead us to the next question, which is really what we’re here for at the conferences to talk about what adjust economy would look like, feel like and be like, in particular for black people. And so the black cultural zone this year is really focused on the concept of telling the truth, reconciling the different troops discussing reparations, before we reimagine, adjust economy or reimagine a new world. And so my second question, and I’ll start in reverse order, Randolph, then Seven, and then Deana, would be to you, Randolph, about the need, is there a need for truth, and reconciliation and reparation? As it relates to adjust economy for black people?
Belle, 10:15
Well, certainly, and I think it all, you know, kind of starts with the truth. And it seems like, it’s becoming more apparent that the truth is irrefutable, and those who would refute the truth, like, Well, right now, we’re waiting on a verdict, where a video shows the truth, but it becomes more and more ridiculous, you know, kind of, to refute an obvious truth. And so as we, you know, kind of progress in that regard, it becomes the truth becomes less refutable. You know, and I mean, and so, as we move forward, I think, you know, Something’s got to give, you know, and it’s not going to be us, right, you know, again, we have been shown to be able to persevere through these. And so I do see a progress towards some sort of reconciliation, we’re seeing some reconciliation, where there was none. And we’re seeing, you know, kind of some discussion of reparations where there was none. It may be slow, but nobody thought this was gonna, you know, kind of happen overnight. And so, yeah, I think it all begins with the truth. And I think the the actual truth, the irrefutable truth, or the path to that is going to narrow.
Johnson, 11:59
Wonderful, thank you. Seven, is there a need for truth and reconciliation and reparations as a relates to adjust economy for black people?
Asefaha, 12:09
Indeed, there is, we’re descendants of the legacy of slavery and, and it’s imperative that those in power recognize that there’s still systems in place today that tie back into that system of slavery. And as artists and creatives, it’s our challenge, to tell that story, and make those connections and visually, creatively illustrate that so that that can’t be disguised and looked over, and others can really connect. And our brothers and sisters in the struggle can see that tie in to reparations to me, as we as an arts organization. See legacies from Jim Crow, to urban renewal to what we can gentrification, how can we relate that tie that in and hold accountability so that the reparations conversation is relevant?
Johnson, 13:13
Wonderful, thank you. And Deana will pass it to you. Is there a need for truth, reconciliation and reparations as it relates to adjust the economy for black people?
Brownfield, 13:21
Yes, it does. I think that is very important to have, like the truth aspects in a way for, you know, as like African descendants, like what is our truth, but also, even for non black people? What is the truth when it comes to what’s going on, like with police brutality and white supremacy, so For me, what I’m learning is that like, it’s important for us to know our truth. And also, in order to reconcile we have to do that work of decolonization. And what does that look like? And how can we even be able to recognize the importance of the importance of like, you know, beings being sovereign people, you know what I mean, and trying to work together to create our own institutions in the process. And I think with the reparations piece, it’ll be wonderful to have reparations. But sadly, you know, for so long, we’ve been waiting for Reparations, but I think it’s really important to reconnect with like sovereignty, and recognizing the power of like community and trying to get back into that, even though we’re in the state that we are, and I feel like that’s very complicated in itself, to unpack. But I think, you know, all those components are very important. But I do stress and think that is very important for sovereignty, and also to try to work together to figure out how to create solutions on our own.
Johnson, 14:48
Wonderful, thank you, and welcome Mizan. We are so glad to see you here. Me and Mizan gonna have a little private conversation for a minute to walk her through and catch her up to where we are. So the first thing was on, I would love for you to introduce yourself, your organization, and what your art practices.
Alkebulan-Abakah, 16:24
Thank you. And thank you for having me here today. So my name is Mizan. Okay, build on avoca. I am the CO creator of Spirit works or organization based here in Oakland that creates experiences to transform lives. We inspire intergenerational wellness and racial healing, and are also a proud partner of the black cultural zone. I am along with Randolph, one of the leads for the arts and culture workgroup. And definitely very thankful to be here. Part of my personal art practice is around installation art, or experiential art, I’ve been calling it now more more like. So that means that it’s a opportunity for us to create space, using all of their senses, to really embody liberation practices, and connect us back to you know, our own heart space. That is that is part of the work around how we heal. And so, you know, using healing centered engagement as a critical tool to how we advance pan African liberation is the art practice. My husband and partner is also an MC Spear of the nation. And so his music, and lyrics are also embedded in into a lot of our collective art practices as well. And again, it’s just it’s how we create radical healing. It’s it’s the work around how we get to adjust economy, it’s the work about how we create our future. It’s the work around, really just building community and building relationships, building family, and transforming along the way. So given thanks for being here. Yeah,
Johnson, 16:44
Yeah, thank you so much. So the next question I’m going to ask you, and it’ll take a second to get there is your understanding of the black speculative Arts Movement, and why you believe it is a value to the black community, I’m gonna read sort of a definition that’s out there of that, and we’d love to hear your take. So black speckles of art is a creative aesthetic practice that integrates African diasporic worldviews with science or technology. But it seeks to interpret, engage, design or alter reality, for the reimagination of our past, the contested present and to act as a catalyst for the future. And so that’s the definition that’s out there would love to know what your understanding is of the black speculative Arts Movement, and why you believe it is a value to the black community.
Alkebulan-Abakah, 17:38
What a beautiful question. I love it. Um, so, first, my understanding of black speculative Arts Movement is really, you know, it’s Afro futurism. It is the way that we think about what we both the aesthetic that we have as African people and the culture and legacy that we have, that’s embedded in our past, that allows us to be built to make sense of our current present, and then imagine and redesign and re create a new future for us. And so I think it’s essential in the value that it has is because, you know, we can’t get stuck in the narratives of, you know, our history started in slavery, or that we are just descendants of, you know, that element of trauma that there’s so much more to our pan African reality that we have that allows us to really imagine and create a new future and I think that a lot of times people who have experienced oppression, the first thing that we that gets beaten out of us is our hope, right, our capacity to hope and you Imagine into rethink about something that could be new. And out of the box out of our current reality, you know, young people that I teach, you know, their boxes of what they can be when they grow up as a rapper or basketball player, right. And so for us to be able to create and reimagine what our future could look like, and using the arts and science and culture, and medicine, and, you know, all of the elements of our existence to really create and reimagine and redesign a new future is essential, because oppression is not going to last forever, right, the struggle does not continue, it actually is going to end and when it ends, we want to be able to be ready to have an imagination of a worldview about what we want to create, about what life we want to have about what the next seven generations going to look forward to. And so I think that that’s part of the essential part is that it allows for us to jump off beyond our oppression, to really create the world that we really want to live a thriving, just world formed approach.
Johnson, 19:37
Thank you so much. And that leads right into the next question, which is really about adjust economy for black people. And and the black holes on this year is really anchoring the concept of Truth and Reconciliation, reparations and reimagining. And so my second question for you will be about Do you believe there is a need for truth, reconciliation and reparations as it relates to a just economy for black people?
Alkebulan-Abakah, 20:04
Absolutely, yes, most definitely. First things first is around truth, right? So many times people think about and have had the conversation around, you know, it’s the bootstraps, just pull yourself up from the bootstraps, and everything will be okay. And we’ll be able to get ourselves together, and, you know, create a new economy, but it’s not just like that. So the truth of the matter is that there has been systems and policies and practices that have, you know, undermined our capacity to really build an economy within the black community to to, you know, systematically, you know, take us away from land ownership, or has destroyed our land, you know, and drop bombs on our communities. Like I’m saying, like, there’s, there’s truth to that that many people just don’t know. Right? So starting there to really be able to build some awareness around that. The second part is around reconciliation, like how do we really restore relationships on for human beings, you know, to be able to understand that we got to build something better. So the reconciliation part is critical, as we’re able to think about, where is it that people can be held accountable for what has happened? And where can we heal that harm that hasn’t been done? And then as human beings, what do we want to create for our future? Right? What do we want to what do we want to create for the next state stages and steps and so the reparations comes in about really repairing that, you know, really be able to add to balance the equation that has been unbalanced for many years, hundreds of years to be able to come back to really valuing our life and our contributions to human civilization. And so that element of our reparations is critical.
Johnson, 21:41
Yeah, wonderful. Thank you so much, you’re going to get a break for a few minutes, while I’m bring back our other participants. And so Deana, just to let you know, I’m going to start with you, and then Seven, and then Randolph, and then we’ll go back to Mizan. And so now I want to connect the two issues of sort of the black speck of arts and truth and reconciliation. So we want you to think about the Lens of Truth, reconciliation and reparations, as we just talked about, but how do you believe that one or more elements of the black speculative Arts Movement can support reimagining adjust economy? So I’ll say that one more time, how do you believe Deana, that one or more elements of the black speculative Arts Movement, maybe even your practice, can support reimagining adjust the economy for black people using that Lens of Truth, or reconciliation and reparation? Deana?
Brownfield, 22:40
I feel like that’s a hard one to answer. But for me, I think within like the movement, so it’s like having that key key component like art. And like for me, as an artist, I work with a collective. And so when we think about the economy, like sometimes, this society tells us that it’s very individual individualistic, you have to work for so that’s how you’re going to get started. But in reality, I think, in order to reconcile the past and even, like, think about how, like capitalism has, you know, oppress black people, I think it’s important that we recognize that as a collective, it’s important to, you know, work together to build a sustainable economy. So for me, you know, working with this collective, you know, learning how to do certain learning certain skills like painting and, you know, managing time and all these different components, like managing to be an artist is super important, and we’re learning those skills together. You know, and I think I think that’s very important in order to like, move forward. And so even like build a sustainable economy is like having those connections and knowing that if we all come together to do something we can succeed. And we can have a greater outcome rather than moving solely as an individual.
Johnson, 24:05
Wonderful, thank you. Seven, using the Lens of Truth and Reconciliation and reparation. How do you believe that one or more elements of the black speculative Arts Movement can support reimagining adjust the economy for black people Seven
Asefaha, 24:19
As a cultural plays keeping organization, we recognize that that is a critical area and need as cities are being redefined, reimagined. And how can we position what we do as more than this just an arts organization, but a critical part of how our cities are being turned over. So having and positioning ourselves amongst developers and having conversation about being a part of that development in a more foundational investment role? Right. So how, how do we position this conversation of arts culture and how cities are being reimagined in a in a more equitable, you know, way. And so that’s something that we feel is critical so that we’re not just sidelined, in how our cities are, are looking. And the conversation of racial justice is more performative rather than really tangible with land. So how does that? How does land and development and arts Connect?
Johnson, 25:25
Wonderful, thank you. Randolph, the question for you the Lens of Truth, reconciliation and reparation. How do you believe that one or more elements of this movement can support reimagining adjust economy for black people, Randolph?
Belle, 25:52
And this is all good stuff. Um, you know, I think that we are at a seminal, if not pivotal point in time, right now. You know, I don’t think it makes sense to believe anything, but that this is our time to kind of dictate the future. Like, people are gonna do what we do, you know, what I mean? That is to create, to innovate, and to really to drive the future. We kind of like Prince, you know, what I mean, we got, we got to create a vault that will last for a millennia, right. And I, but I do think that we’ll be doing that, you know, with more of a mandate for equity. I don’t think that there’s any limit to what we could achieve. And so I would not limit the our concept of reparations to what someone or somebody is going to do for us, as a result of what they’ve done to us. I think that black futurism can drive, what it is that we do for ourselves in terms of building, but also what we can do in terms of repairing the damage, you know, done to the brothers and sisters, you know, among us, who it will be vital to bring back into the movement. And so it, you know, I’m just really excited, you know, about the future and, and because art, you know, in general, not just the art that we’re creating, because art transcends, you know, all, you know, you know, art, you know, crime and create strange bedfellows, you know, I think that it will be us, you know, and, you know, kind of the the creative energy that is unique to us, that will kind of move us, you know, kind of forward to to those, you know, the concepts of truth, reconciliation and reparations for.
Johnson, 28:02
Thank you, and Miss Mazon, back to you again, you know, with that Lens of Truth and Reconciliation and reparations. How do you believe that one or more elements of the black speculative Arts Movement can support reimagining adjust economy for black people? Yeah,
Alkebulan-Abakah, 28:18
Yeah, I agree with many of what’s been said already. Again, good stuff. And so the only piece I would add is that part of us creating for black folks in particular, the our economy is definitely grounded in our need to look at the transformation on three levels. And so with this spirit works, we have this concept around And many other folks do as well around transformation on an individual level on an interpersonal level and on an institutional level. And so we think about adjust economy, our economies overlap and all of those elements, right. And so really what I think that is one thing to add to this conversation is just that the necessity for us to really do that truth seeking within ourselves within our own communities, right? What who has been, you know, who was the headmaster who we need to talk to, right, who was the one who was blocking somebody loan at a bank, right, we need to talk to right. So there’s been roles that we have played and interpersonal ways that we have played and things that we’ve internalized around living it within capitalism, that puts profit more important than people, you know, we have to undo our learnings around those within our own individual cells about what it means for us, and how that impacts our relationships, and to be able to move our relationships beyond just the transactional to actually the transformative. And so when we think about adjust economy, I just economy for black folks should look transformative, it shouldn’t just be about, you know, the resources and means of production that we’re talking about, we want to own and control because we do want to do that. But it’s also how we do that, how do we engage with each other in a way that really supports bringing out the best version of ourselves. And so afrofuturism black future looks like us really being able to reconcile, to heal to be able to build that so that when we do engage on an individual level, when we do engage on an interpersonal level. And when we do engage with institutions that we really have the value of people and love and our communities at heart. And so that’s what guides the work around creating adjust economy. It’s not just putting new people in new places, like you say, doing do seeing what they can do for us, it’s actually doing for us in a way that really is grounded in embedded in the values of Pan africanism. And the values of our love for each other, and the values of really built in to just community with each other. So I think that takes a lot of healing. And a lot of reflection, and a lot of dirty work is dirty is dirty work. But we got to do that work within ourselves to really be able to heal and be with each other to build families that are strong and so forth. So, you know, I think that that’s the only piece I would add. Thank you all for your comments so far.
Johnson, 30:49
I’m wonderful. And thank you all for participating. So far, I believe that the next portion that will take place a couple of weeks from now will be a live q&a session. And so I just want you all to just reflect in with a closing statement on the audience that we’re speaking to policymakers, investors, partners, organizations, legislators, etc. Who will be in the audience, what is one thing that they can do to support a future where there is a just economy for black people? And or what does a just economy for black people look like? without all the barriers, thinking about what it looks like? share that with the audience. And we’ll do a quick round, we’ll go and start back with you Mazon and work backwards to Deanna. And then we will end the taping was on?
Alkebulan-Abakah, 31:38
What does that look like? It looks like everything, it looks like, you know, I just I’m just going to bust it all the way wide open everything that you can imagine that allows for human beings to interact in a way that supports our health and wellness that supports our vibrancy that helps us as human beings be the best version of ourselves. That’s what it should look like. So whether or not that’s a way in which we interact with each other, where it’s not based upon dollars, where it’s based upon time banking, or based upon us being able to barter with each other or cooperative working together, it looks like all of that it looks like having blockages of access to resources removed, it looks like folks who have profited off of the backs of black folks in particular, but people of color within this country that they break themselves off, that they’re able to really share those resources that they have gained off of Al means right that they’re able to give back by, by untethering themselves to the legacy of blood that that has been shed for them to be able to bring these riches and really be able to recognize that there’s people who are ready to hold and build communities that are based upon love and life and really thriving. Right and so no more black has blockages towards that thrive. So what it looks like everything just reimagine it all and we’re gonna create it.
Johnson, 33:05
I love it. Wonderful. Thank you. Randolph?
Belle, 33:09
Uh, wow. Let’s see here. Um, I would say, you know, to to a lot of those, you know, kind of those constituents that you you just mentioned that we’re speaking to right now, I would say assume that you don’t know. That’s first. What I have found in my experience is that as long as you know, you know, we these are all smart people. Right? And I always say if you get enough smart people in the room, something’s bound to go wrong, right? Because you can’t tell them nothing. Right? The too smart, right. And so even confronted with the truth, if it’s their truth, if it contradicts with their truth, they cannot accept it. Right. And again, that’s, you know, part of this coming down on to an irrefutable truth. But I would say, just to understand that you have not gotten it right, to know that you have left money and impact on the table, you know, kind of by not engaging, you know, our money is green as well. And to humble yourself.
Johnson, 34:22
Thank you. Seven?
Asefaha, 34:27
I guess funding to point to one thing, it’s to really recognize that in urban land, sex, and historically black communities that we hold some of the developers accountable, we create some kind of real fund, so that the communities that are still intact there can rebuild, what is what is still there, and organizations and businesses that want to hold space in these communities can can thrive and rebuild our urban cities, in a way that’s equitable. And so getting past some of these performative aspects, and a lot of the debating that happens when on the ground in the present, you know, big dollars are being poured into these communities, and we’re being pushed out. So how can we have these real solutions on the ground right now, as this is happening in our community, so just getting past putting real money down and supporting the groups that are on the ground doing the work and supporting them and capacity, and whatever else?
Johnson, 35:38
Thank you, and our future, our youngest artists here and the table, we’re doing this for you, Deana, I was watching one.
Brownfield, 35:46
I think it’s important to invest in youth and young people, I think that’s something that is very important. And I felt like some people don’t realize the impact that it has on young people to be invested in, whether it be like, you know, acknowledging that there needs to be changes to the curriculum that the state has, I think that’s super important for like black students. And also like when it comes to investing in our communities, invest in our communities, because it’s right, but also not try to use it as a way to like, you know, be intentional on the reason why you’re giving into those communities, and also being mindful of like, the things that are continuing to happen to our communities. And also even during these times with like the with police brutality and other forms of violence towards black people, invest in local organizations that are doing the work, you know, and do your research on those organizations as well. And also give native native people back their land, I think that’s important as well, and into the conversation. So, you know, those are the things I think are very important.
Johnson, 36:55
Wonderful, I want to thank you all. I’m CJ with the black cultural zone Community Development Corporation. We’re a proud partner of the East Oakland black cultural zone collaborative. And we’re here to build we’re here to build power so our people can thrive. Thank you all so much. Hello.
Alkebulan-Abakah, 37:35
Hey, folks.
Belle, 37:41
I always whenever I hear myself, I think back to that 48 hour. Mark? Oh, seven experiments just lit. Me yo bullets. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I
Johnson, 38:04
Yeah. Yeah, I think the the the chat, the back chat was it was the show, and I did put a couple of questions. I’m waiting for other questions from Kaylee. But just a question for you all to think about what what is the truth of our local or national or international economy right now? What is the truth?
Belle, 38:27
Yeah, I think like all politics, politics are local. So I think it has to have happened on a hyper local. For me, I think it has happened on a hyper local scale. To get that Brown swell to get it? Right, right. For them, it works different. You know, somebody can say, you know, Black is white, and they like Yep, yep. And then, you know, if, but for us, you know, we don’t kind of we don’t roll like that. Right? It is some bullshit is some bullshit, you know?
Johnson, 39:12
Good morning to you, Randolph. Right. Well, when you say local, I mean, we are all based in Oakland and I, you know, recall, the Oakland doing its own sort of assessment of its equity, and it rated it own its own self, I think there was an F score in terms of its sharing of resources, whether it be to contractors, for projects, etc. And it’s tour as it relates to equity. And of course, the lowest sort of contribution or distribution was to black folks. And certainly in the last year, I’ve seen no, but I’m new to this work of working with the city and getting funding a lot of money coming to our organizations. But I think in the, in the overall context, how much reparations would be necessary for the city to overcome its legacy of having underfunded our community for decades.
Asefaha, 40:05
I mean, it’s tremendous, and I don’t even think you can really, um, we would have to really sit down and look at that. But the, I think, overall, we’re just put on a slow drip, right, of a few few funds here, you know, these consistent or these constant conversations with the city. And, you know, it’s just a lot of talk and hot air. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, you see what was being done. So that’s what’s frustrating about the whole thing is that the city really did get an F or sees itself as F, then you start this process of getting things right, in a real concrete way. And and with boots on the ground. So I don’t really see that.
Johnson, 40:53
And how could art and culture sort of speculative arts and culture afrofuturism have an impact on stopping that slow drip and turn it into the flow that it needs to be?
Belle, 41:06
Can I just say one thing on the last on the last question, you say that the city foul scored itself. And if the city did not score itself enough, that department that conducted the report, which was like, and she was really an outsider, like she came in, so when they hired her, I don’t think that they knew, I don’t think that they wanted to hear the truth. Right. And so she came up with this score for the city, and they are in no way prepared to, to act on her findings. Right. And so, again, it’s all a matter of like, kind of who’s in these conversations. And so just to be clear, I think we really got to be Pacific, you know, like, when we’re when we’re kind of making these statements around the who’s what’s why it’s and how we have to ask those follow up questions. You know, those second and third questions, you know, what I mean? So great.
Johnson, 42:09
I agree. And again, how can we show a future through arts and culture? What are we doing now? What can we do, because, obviously, to make this change, we are going to have to do it on behalf of our community. And so what role does art and culture play in telling the story, getting the reparations and reimagining the new future where we do have a just economy in Oakland?
Alkebulan-Abakah, 42:36
I, if I may just jump in, I was just thinking about that around kind of like the the process like how do we see change happening and so, you know, I always go back to our kind of theory of change around our, the work that needs to happen on an individual level, or internalized, you know, thought process around who we are and how we show up. And then our interpersonal relationships and how we engage with each other. And then on our institutional level with, you know, the policies and practices and economies that are set up and around us for press to be able to make some shifts that way. And so, you know, using art and culture as a tool to help support that process, can can drive all of that like and how we imagine and how we show up and how we connect to one another. And so, you know, just thinking about the ways that, you know, our capacity to use culture, our capacity to use our relationships and our capacity to to really impact the material reality like the the the actual, you know, resources that are there. Is all this wide open like this? It is the process, right? So we got to take it step by step to bring to us our culture and every every live level of that process.
Johnson, 43:52
And then Dr. Esteana, I know we had some conversations in the past couple of days around the relationship between emerging artists, between artists who have established practices, and sort of how we relate to each other, how we mentor each other, how we support emerging artists, how can what would you imagine it looking like in terms of adjusted economy starting first within the black arts community and how we relate to each other and how we support emerging artists to have a just economy within even our smaller art segment of the Oakland arts culture.
Brownfield, 44:27
I think it starts with like evaluating our ourselves and our situation, I think it’s very important to look at how resources, how many, how much resources does an individual have, because like, you know, within the black community, we do have some differences. And I think it’s important to acknowledge the differences with resources, who has access, even class, like, all those things are really important to be mindful about, and just to be able to take a step back and realize that it’s important to invest in young people, and people who don’t have as much resources, in order, in order for the creative economy to keep building, you know, we have to really challenge ourselves with this idea that, you know, you have to really, really work hard in order to get somewhere, pull your pull yourself by the bootstraps, I think that’s the same in order to be legitimate. And I think it’s really important to go against these ideas of like how capitalism has, like, told us how we have to be, you know, and have this idea of, like, there’s a lack of opportunity, therefore, we have to compete with one another. And I think it’s very important to challenge those ideas. And also, you know, start creating, like, collective creative communities in order to like, you know, make sure resources are distributed evenly and also have new people access these resources. So for me, I think that’s like something very huge that, you know, black artists has to be mindful of, and also the idea of, like, gatekeeping resources, and, you know, having the same people in the circles or, you know, having people, you know, have access to the same resources, when it’s kind of like, how are we trying to? How are we trying to pull in more youth and train them and have like, you know, this idea that being a creative, they can also be, you know, successful and have money, money to be able to afford, you know, Oakland? So that’s like something I think about a lot.
Johnson, 46:30
Thank you, Deana. I have a question for other seven around offer anyone around sounds like what Deana is saying, what we’re thinking about is that black folks have to lead again, and how do we lead and that sort of recreate capitalism and exploitation and extraction in a collective of black people, in terms of adjust economy within our own community, while still living in a place where we do compete, we were talking the other day about grants and sort of we shouldn’t compete. It’s like, well, it’s a competition, the way the funders fund things, and the city fund things that everybody gets it. And so how do we leave? And how do we set the example? What would that look like, in the black community?
Belle, 47:11
So let me just start by saying even my consumer, in response to some of the previous comments, like capitalism isn’t all bad. That’s my sense, right? I would not have been able to do anything that I have done without capitalism. Right? I came to Oakland from San Francisco 30 years ago, and I just started a business. The fact that I made some money off of my art, I gave away all the profit the profits to all the people around me. I’ve had five commercial art spaces with no, absolutely no contributions from the city from foundations or anything else. The space that I’m in, is home to, I don’t know, like 567 other small black businesses, right. And so I think a lot of times when I’m having these conversations, like I don’t, a lot of times I can’t have conversations about art, because it’s so subjective. We’re gonna do that anyway, we need to figure out a way to make something that’s sustainable, such that, you know, kind of that allows us to to build economic power, and we are going to do the right thing, right. So I don’t think we have to really even factor that piece in whether or not we are going to be equitable or not. We need to figure out how to build some economic we don’t really have I have never had the luxury of being able But to do art for art’s sake, ever, because I always had to eat at least three times a week, you know what I mean? And so I have never had that luxury, whereas other people, other cultures, they could just do art because they want to do art, right, because they know that they are covered. I have never had that luxury. So I would just, you know, kind of, that’s kind of been my framework, everything is an economic development issue for me, right, I had a family got a mortgage, or at least I got shit, you know, children, like all the rest of that stuff. So and then on top of that, we’ve got to have enough left over to take care of our community. Right. And so that’s, I would, that’s all I would say, on the issue.
Johnson, 49:31
Thank you, Randolph.
Alkebulan-Abakah, 49:33
Yeah, it’s just a shame that you added this component around recognizing art for art’s sake, as opposed to art for your movement or art for productivity. And so, it, I just wanted to even just say you said, capitalism isn’t all bad, but even in the way that you created profits, and created space and created opportunities that you share those with folks. And so I think that that’s not necessarily how capitalism functions. That’s actually how African culture functions. That’s how Pan africanism functions. That’s how even you know, to go so far as how socialism functions, that there’s a way that we are able to utilize our resources for the benefit of the collective and last, that’s the foundation, I think of what we’re coming back to in terms of like how we create a adjust economy, is that really being able to utilize the resources to really support those folks who are in need. And capitalism doesn’t do that by design? By principle, it’s, you know, profit for over people. Right. And that’s, that’s the mission. And so I think that when we’re thinking about what we do next, and how we use our art and culture is really to be able to grow that, like how can we really help the benefit of, you know, create resources and streams of support for folks, it doesn’t necessarily have to be cash, but it could be, you know, written connections to opportunities, so that you actually can have time to do you know, some art for art’s sake, and just be able to be and imagine and create, right? That in itself is a is a is a resource, your time is a resource, right? And so just being able to think about ways that we can share and create and build spaces with that is also something that we share, based upon the value that people are more important than profit.
Belle, 51:18
Yeah. And I think that like, and this is a benefit of me, not always being the smartest guy in the room, right? Because I have never, you know, I was not an academic. Right. And I never thought about any of this beyond what made sense for me. So if it’s not capitalism, if it’s just African culture, it is what it is, I can’t even really process beyond what I’m doing today. And how I’m doing that. And, you know, all that, like, in all the time that I’ve been doing this, everybody knows if I win, everybody wins. Right? And so
Alkebulan-Abakah, 51:58
And that is the African way, baby. So you want to know, just by nature.
Belle, 52:04
And so I’m just like, when I say, you know, capitalism, I’m like, really, just talking about that surface level of us getting money, you know, what I mean? That’s it, that’s where the definition starts. And it’s not, you know, too much deeper than that for me. So we do have, you know, God helps the child has got his own order. You know, what, however, the Tony is a smart as, you know, guy in the room, but, you know, I just kind of know what has worked for me and kind of building this little this, this micro eco ecosystem around the work that we’re doing.
Johnson, 52:42
And listening to what you’re saying, I think about, you know, what is a just economy, and the just economy and sort of imagining that is the ability to rest, the ability to enjoy the ability to, you know, like you say, to be able to do art for art’s sake have to do whatever it is that you love. I mean, I’ve seen this country go from my dad, and my mom working just, you know, nine to five, then come home, we had weekends and evenings, that just doesn’t exist anymore. And I think we have to think about how we can reimagine and show in our arts, in our culture, in our work, a different way of being and I think you’re right, thank you, Amazon for saying that, that a lot of the things we talked about as the African way, the things that I do the things that Deanna does, seven does, we always are thinking about the other, and that is a completely different worldview. And so it just economy is going to require transition of a worldview from the eye to the weed and for us to expand our concept of what it means to be community and what it means to love on each other. And so Put each other in that no one should be hungry, and no one should be starving and no one should be stretching. And no one should be desperate and no one should work 15 hours a week, but I know all of us are working 1518 hours a week. And so I think just economy if I’m trying to say my vision of it is the one where you can actually enjoy each other. That you you you work for love as opposed to necessity. Those are my constants of adjust economy if I were to imagine it, peace and rest enjoy. Who would like to go next? And what their What does it look like to have a just economy? Tell us your vision?
Asefaha, 54:18
I guess I’ll just jump in and say that you don’t see we don’t see our people suffering that the system of racism is corrected. It’s not enough for me to be living and thriving and see my brothers and sisters in a situation that isn’t healthy. So yeah, spreading that, that well being and, and healthy living amongst people that have been historically wronged. And as a individual, I’m looking at some of the historic issues of racism, um, say, you know, living in an environmentally toxic environments and so forth that have impacted my health. And just getting out of that and and being in a more thriving and healthier situation. So that’s, those are some points for me.
Johnson, 55:21
Thank you, Seven. Deana?
Brownfield, 55:25
Um, rest most definitely rest. Also, just filling up more nourishment. I don’t know how to explain that exactly. But instead of it being so extractive and taking, and just like being a parasite, more of like, just giving back and making other people feel well, and, you know, also, also just like wanting other people to be aghast, well, just like that idea of like, wellness is like, a form of, of, well, you know, rather than just money itself, like I think wealth can be seen in different ways and capacities. And also just like joy, just the idea of like, you know, we can experience life to the fullest and, you know, joys isn’t is the most important part, rather than just making, you know, ends meet and having to like work. A large sum of hours a week.
Johnson, 56:23
Thank you, Deana. Randolph?
Belle, 56:29
Question again.
Johnson, 56:30
What is it just economy look like to you? Was it feel like, what is it? Oh, man
Belle, 56:37
Oh, man on an afro futurist. Like, I think you’ve heard enough of my life like I humbug. It is, you know, like, because like, everyone’s like, here, and I know you will. It’s funny, right? You have you guys, some of the nicest people in the world, you know what I mean? And just like me, just thinking about having free time, that doesn’t make sense, you know, sleep, I’m like, I’ll sleep when I’m dead. You know, what I mean? Oh, what does it just economy look like? It really looks to me, like the work that we’re doing at the black cultural zone, tell you the truth, right, because I think there is an equal balance between what we are trying to do to build economic empowerment. And within that having this embedded, you know, these underlying guiding principles that we are lifting up the least among us, right, and while supporting those who are doing innovative things amongst us, right, and to be able to do that effortlessly, you know, while extracting, you know, kind of unnecessary stress out of our life. Right? And so, you know, based on what Deanna said about making ends meet, right, like living in that strata, is stress by itself. Right. And so there was a time in my life where I wasn’t even trying to make ends meet. I just wanted them to get close enough to wave at each other. You know what I mean? That’s some stress right there. You know, fortunately, I’m not right there. You know, certainly don’t have everything I have, but like for us to be able to, you know, operate above you know, kind of a sustenance level. Right, and to do what it is that we were created to do, you know, by our Creator You know, that looks like a just economy to me. And in that some people are going to have more than others, some people are going to have way too much than they could ever spend. But nobody is going to have less than they need to be happy, right? Because some people, they don’t need a lot, right? They don’t need cars, jewelry, they don’t need none of that stuff, they just need to be happy. So, to that end, I think that’s where you know, kind of where everybody can do exactly what it is that they want to do without the you know, fear of being hungry or homeless.
Johnson, 59:23
Thank you. And I’m gonna let Mizan on behalf of the black cultural zone and Spirit works close us out with her vision of a just economy. Where to give thanks, Joe,
Alkebulan-Abakah, 59:30
Where to give thanks, yall, it is definitely so much of what you have already said. I’m I just echo that around it is looks like life, it looks like thriving, it looks like being able to heal from the legacies of pain that have stopped us the legacies of shame that have slowed us down. And it looks like us being imbalanced and in harmony also with the earth with, you know, the our environment with our natural resources, and that there’s a cooperative process that happens a collaboration that happens with the resources that are here, and that we really are able to thrive and live a life that is, you know, in our purpose that is in our divine order for us to be able to walk with each other and see our brothers and sisters and see other human beings will be able to see the light within them, and be able to move that and that we work to really support basic needs. Above and Beyond that, again, like Randolph was saying, just being able to be, you know, be at be at peace be and be happy in that space. And so it looks like goodness, y’all, and it looks like we’re doing it. Because there’s so many folks who are on this call, who are you know, in that mindset, and in that thought process, and even folks who have joined in, you know, who are thinking about how we create a just economy. It’s just the process, it is the process that we get to be able to engage in that really brings us to our highest self that we move with each other with our highest self and the highest intentions, and that we honor our life and our life force. And all the people around us with all the goodness that is there. And we given thanks looks like gratitude. Looks like gratitude. So given thanks for the evening, for the afternoon. For the morning pinning on where you are in the world. Looks like life.
Johnson, 1:01:08
Thank you. It is a black cultural zone come into a town near you. Thank you, everybody.
Alkebulan-Abakah, 1:01:14
Thank you.
